Q&A With Dr. John W. Graves

Meet Dr. John W. Graves, a luminary in Philadelphia's theater scene. Graves is a multi-hyphenate known for his work as a playwright, director, actor, and the visionary behind John Graves Productions and retail shop Heres2CoolStuff. Graves's artistic journey is an intricate tapestry woven with passion, resilience, and a commitment to fostering community through the arts.

In this interview we chat about growing up entrenched in the world of performance arts, the serendipitous genesis of JGP, and how being one’s fullest and most authentic self can make the most significant impact in the world.

On Saturday, January 26, 2024, join Graves and friends as they celebrate the 9-year anniversary of Heres2CoolStuff. Grab some drip and stay for the concert and revelry.

Melissa Simpson: I know both your mother and your paternal grandmother were active in the theater. When did you realize that you wanted to pursue theater arts?

Dr. John W. Graves: Pursue for fun or pursue a career? 

Melissa Simpson: Both.

Dr. John W. Graves: For fun, like three. For a career, 28. 

Melissa Simpson: What made you want to turn it into a career? 

Dr. John W. Graves: I never thought about it as a career because growing up and having it so close to me where everybody around me was involved in the arts, it seemed so regular that I didn't know that it was an option. 

Melissa Simpson: It was normalized for you. 

Dr. John W. Graves: Yeah, so much. When I graduated from high school I had to start answering questions about what I wanted to do. I started thinking about the arts, none of it seemed realistic. Maybe I was afraid. But I knew so many talented people. No one was famous or, well, that's what I called it at that moment. But I would also say no one was successful in a way that they were happy with their choices. 

So I went to school for education and I started teaching. I planned on just teaching and doing the education and leadership until I retired and doing the art thing on the side, at night, or just when I felt like it. I joined a program for my master's and then got my doctorate at Drexel. And I just was not with it. School was fine but I was looking at my life like I don't know if I wanna do this for the rest of my life, for the next 25 years. And now that it's been 10 years since I now realize that it was about timing and alignment and a number of other things that made me move. It was impossible to continue.

Things were going on in my life that as a 27-year-old, felt like the end of the world. It wasn't the end of the world though. It felt so dramatic that I had to make a huge life change. Something had to change. So I resigned from teaching and just went on with this, which was the store, Here's 2 Cool Stuff, and the studio, which opened more doors of opportunity and possibilities. That’s when it became less of a hobby and more of an actual thing to do because I have to live, you know what I mean? I’ve got to make money, I’ve got to produce. I was responsible for people: the actors, singers, and dancers that came in, I was responsible for them. That's how it became a career. And just the point of having this as my own thing meant I could think outside the box to accomplish goals and think outside the box to achieve success. 

Melissa Simpson: So this space is a multi-use space? Because that’s something I’m curious about. When it came to your production work and the shows that you put on, where are y'all rehearsing?

Dr. John W. Graves: You know, talk about humble beginnings?

Melissa Simpson: Mm-Hmm.

Dr. John W. Graves: I don't know when the humble beginning thing stops. I still feel like I'm in humble beginnings. When I started, finding a place was very difficult. I knew people with places and they were real stingy, you know? I was blown away. because I thought the world was just like oh, you doing something positive out here? You know? I'm like, how many forms you gotta fill out to use this spot for an hour? You know what I mean? And we were youth. I was 19 years old when I started this company and so was everybody who was in it. 

Then I graduated from college, moved out of my people’s house, and got my own house. My living room was the rehearsal space. And when you don't have anything more, you make do with what you have. Then I moved out of that house and moved into a slightly bigger house with a slightly bigger living room space. And I moved into that house with the intent to utilize my space to rehearse. I was tired of asking people.

We did what we had to do and we still carry that notion. This is South Street, but it's still very humble because we be packed in here. We've done shows here and we still do shows here. For our bigger plays, we rent out theaters in the city to pull off those things. But for the most part, if I can utilize the space I have, I will.

Melissa Simpson: Tell me about the beginning of the production company and how it's grown over the years. 

Dr. John W. Graves: I went to Westchester University where Blacks were a minority on campus and there were not many Black things to do except BSU and gospel choir. Yeah. I mean, of course, there was the Greek life. So I joined the choir. I was flabbergasted at how many of them were so talented in different ways. I had been to school for the arts so I was very accustomed to being around kids like myself. But not if I wasn't that kind of space. So, when I went to Westchester I had that feeling with like-minded people, except they didn't know that they were talented. They didn't know that singing was a thing, acting was a thing, dancing was a thing. They were doing stuff for fun.

At the same time, I was writing a play to do at my grandma’s spot. I don’t remember why they didn’t want me to do it, but that fueled me. That ruffled me the wrong way. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do it anyway, I'm just not gonna do it there. 

So I asked the people that I was around and that was the choir – does anybody want to do a play? Some people said yes. I basically asked anybody that I saw doing something funny on campus to be in the play. There's also a fashion troop on campus - I’d ask the model that was walking the hardest, the girl that sang the loudest - and began to mold them for the play. 

Melissa Simpson: That's amazing.

Dr. John W. Graves: We would rehearse in Southwest but had to come from school in West Chester, So we’d get on the 104 and travel down here to Southwest at  55th and Chester. We’d rehearse, get back on the trolley, and go back up to school. I was a sophomore, but we had like 17, 16 year olds, 18 year olds. I think it was the love of being around each other doing something. We had nothing but time,  it was fun, and we were making a difference that you could see. 

When we first did the play it was at the Freedom Theater and there was a lady on the side of the stage tapping her watch. I didn't know anything about time - I was like, oh, snap! What? She tells me that I’ve run out of time and she’s going to have to charge me more money. So I'm running around.  I'm like, cut the show, we have to stop. So I just cut straight to the end and took my bow. And I wasn't satisfied with that. Six months later we did it again. It was cool. I wasn't satisfied. So I did something else. And next thing I knew it was maybe two, or three years and it had just kept going.

Little things like not being able to book a theater under my name and needing a business are how John Graves Productions became a business, not because I saw it as one. 

Melissa Simpson: So you kind of fell into it. 

Dr. John W. Graves: I saw it as a hobby until I quit my job and resigned. I saw what it was doing to people and I wanted to give people what was given to me from all the different communities I had been in. I believe in the power of the arts and I especially wanted to connect talented people to the art world. I felt that the people I was around were talented and gifted, but they just didn't have the know-how. I started the company with the mission to offer people what I have been offered all my life. 

Melissa Simpson: I'm hearing a lot of like leadership qualities coming through - you saw something in folks and was like, alright, let's, let's get this out of you. 

Dr. John W. Graves: Thank you. Yeah.

Melissa Simpson: How do you go about selecting works to produce? 

Dr. John W. Graves: We just did a show called Black Nativity by Langston Hughes. Most times I do shows that I write.  I experienced some very interesting feelings during the show that I typically don't have to work through. Not because the show wasn't mine, but because I was working on something so established, that so many people have seen. With Black Nativity, it's not the same thing every time. Meaning if you go see The Color Purple the play it's going to be the same everywhere you go. If you go see The Lion King, it's gonna be the same everywhere you go. With Black Nativity everybody's interpretation of the script is different.

Melissa Simpson: Why do you think that is?

Dr. John W. Graves: In the script you are given that creative freedom. Also, there are no videos of this play to pull from. People would say that’s their favorite play, but which version is your favorite play? This made me think that folks were going to compare my play to another version. They may be disappointed. What if I'm not good enough? What if my interpretation is not good enough? These are things I rarely experience in terms of my art. 

I usually produce my own plays so if I'm doing something else, it's because it's laying in front of me and somebody hired me to do it. 

I chose Black Nativity because here in the city, it was a staple for the holiday season. The Freedom Theater was a prevalent organization for a long time. When I was there as a student, I remember seeing celebrities come in for plays. Meanwhile, we're in class upstairs. I was just a young kid, I would sneak out of class and go to the top of the theater and sit in the ceiling and look down and watch the plays like that. I would do it every night. No one ever knew. And I never told anybody that. That’s how I would see different people in the audience. They were all coming in from out of town - places like Hollywood and Atlanta to see Freedom Theater's Black Nativity. Then the company started going down and I saw how it hurt the art community. 

My grandmother also had her rendition of Black Nativity that ran for about 30 years until she got sick. They tried to keep it going and they did for a while. I always wanted to do it because it meant so much to me, but I wanted to do it respectfully. I didn't want to be in competition with, anybody. So I  waited until it came to me. When my grandmom died last year I thought to do something in tribute to her. I did one of her plays and once and felt better about doing Black Nativity. 

Melissa Simpson: What you're saying, is you had these big institutions and someone you were close with, your literal grandmother, who did this play for years and you wanted to make sure that you did it right.

Dr. John W. Graves: Yup

Melissa Simpson: So what are some of your productions that you are most proud of?

Dr. John W. Graves: I can't tell you how many I've written, but it's easier to say that there are about one or two plays I'll probably never do again. 

Melissa Simpson: Why is that?

Dr. John W. Graves: I don't feel like doing the work that it’s going to take to make them better. That's one reason. And the other reason is because I have told their stories in other ways with other shows. There's no need to go back. So outside of those two plays, the other 10 or 12 -  I'm proud of them all. They speak to a certain point in my life or a certain experience. But if I have to pick one that’s very hard.  

It's easy to say the biggest one because small plays mean a smaller cast. The bigger ones feel heavy because it’s more people. But it’s hard for me to narrow it down. Black Nativity is not my story, but I did write the second act, but the drama of putting it up, wow. I'm still recovering. I'm still recovering so much so that I canceled my spring season. Mentally and emotionally I just can’t do it. I need a break So having completed that and not, and not throwing in the towel, I feel like that's the show I'm most proud of.

Melissa Simpson: What are some of the goals you have for your production company? 

Dr. John W. Graves: So I see my production company in two ways. I see it as a community and a means to put out the work that I wanna do. Something has to put the plays out. Something has to put the concerts out. I want to continue doing what I am doing but with better quality and more resources. I'm satisfied with what I'm doing. I'm not satisfied with a lot of things about it.

I’m constantly putting out fires and then it's the customer service. We rarely have issues, but any issue and, and the heat of the moment is annoying. It's not enough hands to pull off what I'm trying to do and I don't know it until it's too late. Most of it I do because I don't have the money to hire somebody to do it and sometimes it feels or seems easier to do it myself although I have help to do certain things. People will ask me why I don’t delegate. I do. Those people are doing what they know how to do. And now, you know, there's still things that I just now realize. That's what I mean by I'm unsatisfied.

Melissa Simpson: I understand.

Dr. John W. Graves:  I'm unsatisfied because it's been so long, but maybe not long enough. It's been so long and I'm still doing the same thing. It's not the same thing, but I have that same feeling.

Melissa Simpson: You're still learning and growing. I’m learning that the learning process never stops.

Dr. John W. Graves: The learning process never stops, but I don't want to learn everything. I don't need to know everything. I'm 37 and that doesn't feel old but in a sense it does. I opened this space at 27 and started JGP at 19. And I've been having fun performing and directing and all that since I was a child. At some point, I would like a break, not a vacation. I'm not talking about that kind of break. I can take a vacation, I can get sleep. I'm talking about a space where I can just do what I want and other people can do what they want. I want funding and the team to back me up. 

Melissa Simpson: Do you have goals for the community aspect of JGP?

Dr. John W. Graves: When I started JGP it was important for me to replicate the community that I grew up in. Now, I don't know the ins and outs of the community I grew up in. I'm talking about it from a kid's perspective. But what that looked like was love and acceptance. And what that love and acceptance manifests in people and what that brings about - it’s important for me to have that now. 

Like I said earlier, the young people, that I worked with while in college were very talented, but they didn't know certain things. Like me, I was talented and had gone to school for acting dancing, and singing. But when I went to put up a play, they were asking me questions about lighting and sound. I didn’t know any of this, but there I was and I had to learn. 

I want the community to continue to do what it’s been doing - making those connections and connecting people to paths - that could be the professional path or the know-how path. Or just opening people’s minds to see the gifts that we're given. Gifts are not meant to lay dormant. They're meant to make an impact. They're meant to save and change the world.

If only people knew how much they change lives. We don't see the ripple effect. You know what I mean? But if I think about how many times I've played one song to make me feel better, I don't know that musician, I don't know the producer. But something about that song kept me afloat. Something about that song kept her living. Something about this script, something about those lines.

Melissa Simpson: And that’s something we all feel. 

Dr. John W. Graves: It's not hard to make an impact when you are doing what you authentically do from your authentic self. You know what I mean? It's not hard to give it away either, you know, because you have so much of it. You know, it may not be brain surgery, but it's heart surgery.

Melissa Simpson: This is my favorite part about interviewing people – getting into the nuance of what art makes people feel, but also how we show up interpersonally. It’s always super interesting to me.

John W. Graves: When, when it comes to the arts and showing up like that. I know that's not always the default, but it's the default here. When I started this I was around 17 years old so I attracted 16, 17, 18, 19 year olds like me. And all of us in that stage of development – there was no faking. We had such a feeling of freedom. No parents, no chaperones. You know what I mean? No one telling us what to do. Not saying we were doing bad things but we got away with not having to give excuses for many things. 

Our parents would ask where we were at and we’d say at rehearsal. But rehearsal also meant traveling in dangerous parts of the city. We just felt like we were just very untouchable. Two o'clock in the morning at ninth and Susquehanna walking people home and getting into fights – but that felt normal. So being in that raw space as a teenager, and also people finding themselves and being on their own and trying new things, being with different people –  that created a space of acceptance. 

And although we’re in our 30s now, we see those same young people coming in that same way every three to four years. And we give that grace because we were there and we haven't forgotten. It wasn't that long ago. It’s a ripple effect. And we see those people prepare the next generation. The values of the space weren't hard to find because they were true to where we were in life.

Melissa Simpson: You spoke about the culture of love and acceptance within your businesses and community. That might not be the case for other creative individuals or organizations. What are some of your hopes and wishes or soapboxes regarding the Philly arts scene? 

Dr. John W. Graves: Mmm

Melissa Simpson: But also, what is the Philly arts scene because that could be so many things. 

Dr. John W. Graves: I approach this from two aspects being an African-American and then being just a human in this art scene. When it comes to the art scene there's a lot of gatekeeping. My theory about why people do it is because they feel like it's not enough for all of us. But there’s enough for everybody. If you know they’re only going to pick one woman in a year – I don’t know if you call that gatekeeping. 

Melissa Simpson: Scarcity mindset. 

John W, Graves: Yeah, it's a lot of that. I see it as something different –  I see it as we're better together. We're stronger together. 

I have reached out to people over the years to say things like let's do something together. They’ll say thank you but always think I want something in return. I don't, but I knew I needed help. I didn’t always know that I needed help, but I know that on show days you need hands. So when I say that I can do this for you it’s because I have time and when people have done this for me they just showed up. 

Melissa Simpson: And you want to impart that to others.

John W. Graves: Yes, and show that's how it goes.

Melissa Simpson: But then that scarcity mindset kicks in for those people. 

Dr. John W. Graves: Mm-Hmm. It's alarming for them. That's why I'm bringing it up, because it's not a small thing – that's the mindset across the board. 

Melissa Simpson: What do you think the city could do to make things less scarce if anything?

Dr. John W. Graves: The city is trying. I was doing this before the pandemic, and obviously, I'm doing it after the pandemic. Since the pandemic, there's been a lot more attention towards the arts and for underrepresented communities and companies. They’re trying, but it’s not enough. They’ll only show you the small things, but not stuff that can impact the bigger picture. 

Somebody said, why don’t you apply for a grant from PECO? And I have, but how I got the grant from PECO, for real, for real, was by somebody in PECO seeing me somewhere and telling me to apply. But you go to PECO’s website, and look for the grant you’re not going to find it - it's not as accessible. I go to the Academy of Music I look at their sponsor list. One day I said, let me look up the first 15 – and yeah they give, but you have to be of a certain caliber. Right, but to get to that caliber…

Melissa Simpson: You need the money. 

Dr. John W. Graves: You need the money. 

Melissa Simpson: These organizations want to check boxes, but there's a disconnect between the people and the donors. They don’t know where to find the people who need the money. Everything is hidden. You had this person from PECO at an event, but outside of that, they're not privy and in a mix because they're so used to going to certain types of shows.

Dr. John W. Graves: Correct. That's true. That's a great perspective. 

I can see individuals in the city doing the work to bridge the gap and make things happen, but being one person in a system is hard and can be a slow process. And it’s also about not knowing, and what you said about the scarcity mindset, which is a wonderful way of putting it. But some ain’t scared –  they are just strange. I don't think that's about color. It's just strange people in this world. Yeah. You know what I mean? And some of them are in this mix, you know?

I think the city could benefit from having conversations with people. That sounds crazy to even consider. Like, what does that even mean? But yeah, have the minds come together to mix or mingle, convene, workshop, brainstorm, and cross-collaborate. All of the above.

Melissa Simpson: Do you have any advice for people looking to grow in their creative practice?

Dr. John W. Graves: I know that there are a lot of reasons why people make and pursue art. And also some people don't see art as anything meaningful – they may have just fallen upon something and it works. Of course, I think there are wrong ways to do something, but what I just described, I don't think either one of those things is wrong.  There's no right way and I say that loosely. I can only speak to the artists who closely resonate with where I am and what it means to me. Art for me is about healing, wholeness, and wellness in the mind, body, heart, and soul.

Melissa Simpson: Amazing.

Dr. John W. Graves: Anything that I do, it all may look different – It could sound different. One day it could be a song, the next day it could be a play, the next day it could be an album, but all of it is about what I just said. Yeah. You know, all of it comes from that.

So if that's your M.O., then I would say practice makes perfect. And I'm not talking about the craft. I'm talking about life, practicing life. If you're talking about wellness and wholeness and all those things, the way you're going to produce is out of your own experiences. And for that person, how you're going to survive is by your art. 

Melissa Simpson: Absolutely!

Dr. John W. Graves: If you can see your next 70, 80 years of life, you know, that you’re going to survive and testify by the things that you learned through your art. Your wholeness, your healing, and what you do for people – it comes from practice and going through it yourself. It’s a lot of suffering, – I don’t mean to sound dramatic. But on the other side of that is a number of things. One of them is being able to pay it forward and bless other people. You can put things out into the world that change mindsets and gives people permission. You have to practice the reason why you do your craft. Your why. 

Melissa Simpson: Is there anything that we didn't discuss that you would want the public to know? 

Dr. John W. Graves: Time flies. I was thinking on my way here, looking back I was a lazy as youngboul boy. I stayed connected to my younger self for so long – not on purpose. Once I turned 30, I still felt like I was 25 – I couldn’t help that I felt that way. But now I'm 37 and I'm looking back and I'm thinking about 24, 23. It's far enough to be able to see what I should and shouldn’t have done. So yeah, time flies meaning you have time, but you don't have time, so if you have a goal, dream, or idea, you can start small. You just gotta start. because the next thing you know, you won't have any time.